X-Sender: kevyn@pop.ksu.ksu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 18:01:35 -0600 To: Manhattan Queers Email List From: kevyn@KSUVM.KSU.EDU (Kevyn Jacobs) Subject: MERCURY: More Responses to Rev.Weston Sender: owner-mq%casti.com@KSUVM.KSU.EDU Precedence: bulk FROM THE MANHATTAN MERCURY LETTERS TO THE EDITOR AUGUST 28, 1995 =============================== Weston right about homosexuals To the Editor: Apparently, both the Rev. Don Longbottom and Dianne K. Urban misunderstood the Rev Todd Weston's column. Rev. Weston did not condemn homosexuals. He merely pointed out that by normalizing homosexual relations in society, you are ignoring the many message clearly stated throughout the Bible that homosexual activity is not acceptable as an "alternative lifestyle." There are reasons for this. God does not tell us what or what not to do so that we are picked on or deprived. His laws are set up for our benefit as a community. One has only to imagine the negative consequences that will inevitably come about now that homosexual relations have become acceptable in the name of "diversity." Look at the chaos society is experiencing now that heterosexual relations have become acceptable without marriage. In my opinion, Rev. Weston's column was far more caring toward homosexuals than the other two. It's obvious he truly believes in God. And knowing that there is indeed a God, how sad it is that both Rev. Longbottom and Urban would try to convince homosexuals that their sin doesn't exist. And that this fleeting life is worth the gamble. Jesus never spoke of patronizing diversity. He did, however, make clear He would cause diversity among families, between those who see the truth and those who don't. Whether you're homosexual or heterosexual, if you are truly trying to grow spiritually you have to die of yourself and not dwell on earthly pleasures, and anyone who tells you different is lying. And yes, it is possible to love the homosexual and hate the sin. Rev. Weston's column was proof of that. Obviously, his love goes beyond this earthly life. Valerie Terzi 4003 Michelle Circle ==================================== ==================================== FROM THE MANHATTAN MERCURY LETTERS TO THE EDITOR AUGUST 29, 1995 =============================== Don't explain away Bible 's teachings To the Editor: Recently, I read the article on your Opinion page by the Rev. Todd Weston concerning what the Bible has to say about homosexuality. I later read the article by the Rev. Don Longbottom, which refuted Rev. Weston's column. Rev. Weston's column repeatedly said, "The Bible says this and that ...," and he quoted scripture. Rev. Longbottom's column said, "I believe this and that ...," and he wrote what he thinks, and, "My church believes this...," and he wrote what the leaders of his church think. Proverbs 14:12 says, "There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. " Rev. Longbottom says there is more than one way to be a Christian. John 14:6 says, ' I am the Way and the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by Me." II Timothy 4:3 & 4 says, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." Rev. Longbottom explained away the scriptures, which say that those who practice homosexuality (along with those who practice other sexual sins, drunkards, thieves, etc.) will not enter the Kingdom of God by comparing them with scriptures about church order, such as women being silent. Scripture never tells us that women who speak in church will not enter the kingdom of God, it never calls that "an abomination to God," nor sin, as the Bible calls homosexuality. Love thy neighbor? I am positive that if someone who practices homosexuality came to Rev. Weston in need, Todd would give him or her the shirt off his back. Are they welcome in Rev. Weston's church? No less than any other sinner. We who believe the Bible know that only the God of the Bible can set us free from sin. I have had many friends over the years who used to believe the lie that they were born homosexual, along with alcoholics, drug addicts and those who practiced other self-destructive behavior, who were completely and lastingly set free by the power of God, and now live normal lives. Do we condemn homosexuals? The Bible says we'd better not. God loves them. When the woman was caught in adultery, Jesus taught the people who were about to kill her that we as sinners have no right to condemn anyone . But he then turned to the woman and said, "Go, and sin no more." He did not say, "I accept you as you are in your sin, go and continue as you were." Thank you Todd Weston and other pastors for speaking the truth of the Scriptures. even if it goes against the politically correct trend of the day or steps on our toes. That's real love. Kim Smith 805 Goodrich Drive ==================================== ==================================== FROM THE MANHATTAN MERCURY LETTERS TO THE EDITOR AUGUST 29, 1995 =============================== God 's law filled with tough love To the Editor: "Anyone who hates homosexuality cannot do so without hating the homosexual. Those who claim to love homosexuals and hate homosexuality are lying, and that's a sin, too." The quote from a recent contributing writer of The Mercury is silly. One may substitute any number of other words for "homosexuality" and understand my point. Does she call the Salvation Army and those that support it liars? It's a basic premise that those that work in Christian or other religions' rescue work to hate the sin and love the sinner. Does this writer love or hate her children when they do wrong? The same basic real love, tough love, says love your children at all times but do not love their "sin." The writer refers to homosexuals and heterosexuals and doesn't even mention marriage in these types of encounters. I do trust that the sanctity of marriage is still the highest ideal for one and all in all types of cultures and religions. If that is true, then all other sexual encounters are not what society wants and loves. How about homosexual marriages? Who's the husband and who's the wife? Where are the children? Perhaps people should be able to "marry" beasts, too. I tell you folks that some may be leaning toward homosexuality, others toward raping, others toward stealing, murder, lying, etc. Always hate the sin and love the sinner. Always seek man's highest goals and achievements, not the basest. If you want to know peace and harmony, right from wrong, then seek a good dose of common sense, a clear conscience, and yes, God's ways. Don Rose 407 Research Drive ==================================== ==================================== FROM THE MANHATTAN MERCURY LETTERS TO THE EDITOR AUGUST 30, 1995 =============================== Writers dictate what society is to believe To the Editor: I am writing in response to the Aug. 28 letter to the editor by Valerie Terzi. Terzi discusses the "negative consequences" of homosexuality and how we should lovingly point out that homosexual love is a sin. The letter begins by explaining that she and the Rev. Todd Weston do not approve of condemning homosexuals. However, this is the only portion of the letter that does not condemn homosexuals. Rev. Weston states his worries for children who mature in a society that accepts homosexuality. This is a blatant condemnation because he is clearly implying that a strictly heterosexual society is somehow better. Terzi writes, "One has only to imagine the negative consequences that will inevitably come about now that homosexual relations has become acceptable..." Sounds pretty condemning to me. If these articles are so loving, I challenge Ms. Terzi and Rev. Weston to find any homosexual persons who felt more loved after reading these letters. The second point in both Rev. Weston's and Ms. Terzi's articles is that homosexuality is a sin. But why is it? Their view reflects only a small portion of the religious community's interpretation. But even if it is a sin, how bad a sin is it? The Bible makes reference to homosexuality in the same context as having sex with a women during menstruation. Further, one of the first teachings of the Bible is to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Not love your neighbor if he or she is not homosexual. Why is it that nobody is out bashing people for cheating on their spouses when the Bible also says that too, is sin. Heaven help us all should Weston and Terzi turn their guns on such biblical sins as greed, envy, and anger. But of course they will not because everyone is guilty of these sins. My own sense of things is that homosexuality is singled out for a special kind of condemnation because it represents nonconformity practiced by a minority group. Finally I think it is important to remember that what you or your church believes doesn't dictate what society must believe. I also believe that these letters are not victimless. I hope someone submits a letter on the horrors of heterosexual society so that we will know what it feels like to be bashed in the black and white text of a newspaper. Josh Longbottom 745 Canfield Drive ==================================== ==================================== FROM THE MANHATTAN MERCURY AUGUST 29, 1995 - EDITORIAL PAGE ================================== Prejudice fuels debate about homosexuals Rev. Victor W. Force Contributing Writer I prayed that by this point, the debate in the church on homosexuality would be over. I also prayed that Stallone, who is the worst actor in history, would stop making movies. I hear he has a new one coming out at Christmas. Hollywood sure does know how to celebrate the birth of Jesus. So much for my prayers getting answered. Anyone who has been in the midst of this debate, and we've been arguing since God was a child, knows that the debate has nothing to do with homosexuality, I don't know what people here call it but when a group of people is singled out and called evil, and scriptures are taken out of context to support the hatred, it sounds a lot like prejudice to me. We Christians are great at this, in fact we've almost made it into an art. We have used the scriptures to support the killing and ravaging of Jews for centuries before the Holocaust. The scriptures were used to keep women from power, to dominate the Native Americans and to oppress and enslave people of color. Now we do the same thing to the gay community. Be careful, you might just be next. The bumper sticker that reads, "The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it" is merely an excuse for Christians not to think. And God how we do hate to think. We hate to think about how the church is called to be a dispenser of "grace" and not judgment. We hate to think about how pointing at a group of people and saying, "You're evil," makes those doing the pointing feel just a little bit superior. We hate to think how we all are in deep need of grace, forgiveness and reconciliation. With regard to if being gay is a choice or not ... why is it that people from the nongay community are always telling people from the gay community what their experience is? For my money, for Person A to tell Person B what he is thinking is simply audacious. A good friend of mine introduced me to the writings of Flannery O'Connor last week. I read the short story "Revelation." In the story, Mrs. Turpin, a fine churchgoing woman, spends some of her spare time thinking about how glad she is not to be like other people. After literally getting hit on the head and having a wrestling match, not unlike Jacob and the angel in the Bible, she is forced to confront herself. In the final scene she is among the pigs and she has a personal awakening, not unlike the prodigal son. She sees a vision of people going to heaven. All of the people that she disapproved of were dressed in white robes and were moving up to glory. She was there as well, but bringing up the end of the line. I think O'Connor was reminding the reader about the first being last and the last being first. Finally the woman made her way back to the house in the dark, "In the woods around her the invisible cricket choruses had struck up, but what she heard were the voices of the souls climbing upward into the starry field and shouting hallelujah." It seems that there is so much good and so much bad in all of us that simply throwing out some scriptures is inadequate. It also seems that our time would be better spent doing almost anything other than guessing who is in and who is out of the Kingdom of God. Contrary to popular belief we are still our brothers' and sisters' keepers. When people kill themselves because of confusion about sexuality, the church does play a role in that killing. Maybe one day this debate will be over. Maybe one day Hollywood will put O'Connor stories on the big screen, and maybe one day Stallone will finally retire. The Rev.. Victor W.. Force is a Presbyterian minister in Manhattan.