BRYAN J. BLUMBERG report to GLAAD/LA (213) 463-3632 Tuesday, March 12, 1991 Report on the Symposium on the Preservation of the Heterosexual Ethic sponsored by Lou Sheldon's California Coalition for Traditional Values. The symposium was originally to be held at the Disneyland Hotel in Anaheim. However, due to an ACT-UP organized 'phone zap,' Disneyland Hotel withdrew permission to CCTV to hold the symposium there. The symposium was moved to the Power Community Church, also in Anaheim. The symposium took place on Friday, March 8 and Saturday March 9, 1991, from 8:30 a.m. until 4:00 p.m., both days. The entire symposium was recorded on audio tape and is available for $33 from the Traditional Values Coalition, 100 South Anaheim Blvd., Suite 350, Anaheim, CA 92805 (714) 520-0300. I also brought my own portable cassette recorder to record the entire symposium, but the church's sound quality is much better. The CCTV tapes do not contain the audio from the ACT-UP disruption, but I have that on my own personal tape. Lou Sheldon did not make any statements or participate in the symposium except to make logistical announcements, i.e., instructions on what to do in case there were protesters, where the rest rooms were, or where lunch would be served. He also introduced most of the speakers. I have indicated the religious affiliations of any speaker who happened to announce his or her affiliation. While one of the speakers is Catholic, and two are Jewish, it is important to note that the audience was mostly Evangelical Christian, that everyone was white except for two women who were black. Most of the men I was introduced to during the conference were ministers. Many of the women were involved in one political endeavor or another or were apparently just concerned parents. When reading my occasional comments regarding religious scripture, please understand that I am a "cultural Jew." I do not have a rabbi's education in Judaism. When I make comments about my inability to understand Christian doctrine, it is based on my application of Jewish logic to Christianity as I understand it. In other words, due to our cultural differences, what seems perfectly logical to a Christian may not necessarily seem logical to me. Discussion of homosexual women was almost completely absent during the entire symposium. As usual, lesbians are invisible. Perhaps in this milieu it is to their benefit. The text below is the information that was presented. Comments within square brackets '[....]' are questions, comments, and editorials of my own regarding the material presented or are not part of the actual proceedings. A note regarding terminology: To me, calling me "homosexual" is tantamount to name calling. It is insulting and dehumanizing. I prefer the term "gay" because "homosexual" is a medical term which only describes my sexual orientation. I use both terms below in the context that the speakers used the terms. I believe that most "non-sacramental" Christians prefer the terms "evangelical" or "charismatic" over "fundamentalist." In order not to insult any Christians with terminology, I only use the term "fundamentalist" below, when a person self-identified as a "fundamentalist." Otherwise I will use the term "evangelical." FRIDAY, MARCH 8, 1991 TY BEESON, a televangelest from the California's Antelope Valley, provided "A Biblical Perspective, Part I." Beeson is Christian. Beeson read from Deuteronomy 30-13, et. seq. in which God discusses 'The two ways:' "See, today I set before you life and prosperity, death and disaster." A lengthy discussion of lawlessness was presented. [Why talk about law at such great length? As I understand Christian teaching, before Jesus' time there were Jews and the Law; once Jesus died and was resurrected, those that believed in him received grace. Why didn't Beeson talk about grace? Furthermore, if we will accept, for the moment that homosexual behavior is a violation of Christian law, why are some laws observed while others broken without any acknowledgement or guilt? Finally, Christianity teaches that all sins are equal. Why do Christians devote so much additional energy fighting homosexuality, and not expend equal amounts of energy fighting all of the other sins of man? Surely, they have violated their own teachings by the simple act of prioritizing sin.] Beeson talked about the justification of legislating morality. For example, murder is illegal. He said that if you do not legislate morality, then by default you legislate immorality. He referred to our society as "amoral." Amorality is the inability to distinguish that which is moral and that which is immoral. [He did not discuss the concept of a victimless crime.] He asked the audience if they agreed that if a person attempts to jump of a cliff, that that person is sick. The audience said "amen." He suggested that if a person tries to jump off a cliff, it is better to stop them before they jump rather than after because then it is too late. Heterosexuality is the natural use of the body parts. With regard to homosexuality, or any other immoral act, God didn't say "you can't." He merely said, "don't." You can't drink and drive, or you'll be a law breaker and pay the penalty. He referred to homosexuality, pedophilia and bestiality as examples of immoral behavior. He discussed natural and unnatural uses of the body parts. "My mouth is not for drinking. I will make an unnatural use with my nose. Go ahead and do it. Don't tell me I'm wrong for using my mouth. Now, I can change the function of my body parts and do with them what I want to do." If I decide I'm going to drink a Coke through a straw up my nose, God doesn't say I can't. But, if I start choking, everyone is going to tell me it's my own fault. [The implication is that if I have homosexual sex, and come down with AIDS, it is my own fault due to miss- use of my body parts. So when I cry "help, I'm dying," the rest of society should not have to bear the expense of my medical care because I brought on this affliction of my foolishness.] Proverbs 14-12: There is an end which seems right to man, but its end is death. Romans 6-23: The wages of sin is death. The spirit of anti-family: In Genesis Chapter 1, man and woman were created. In Chapter 2, it was stated that man should not be alone. Genesis 2-20 states that for Adam there wasn't a helper. Leviticus 18-22 discusses the laws of sexual sin. Do not violate them or you've just made the wrong choice. DR. JUDITH REISMAN, co-author of "Kinsey, Sex and Fraud: The Indoctrination of a People." Reisman is Jewish. She has a Ph.D. in Communications, and worked on the Captain Kangaroo Show, before she decided that her work in television wasn't doing anything significant to benefit society. [Lou Sheldon stated that Reisman is a 'Jewess'. I hate that word, consider it name calling, and I can't even find it in the dictionary!] "What is the Kinsey Lie?" Reisman showed a video tape of a December 5, 1990 episode of the Phil Donohue Show in which a photographer for Kinsey, Dr. Tripp, was interviewed along with Reisman. She got Tripp on the defensive because within Kinsey's book are tables presenting data on the number of orgasms boys between the age of 1 and 7 years old could have over a twenty four hour period. She wanted Tripp to explain to the audience how, for example, Kinsey was able to count the number of orgasms these children had. Her book details how these children were masturbated by trained "partners" who held stop watches. The results were then tabulated an analyzed. When children cried or struck their partners, Kinsey reported this as the children were enjoying themselves. Reisman says these children were molested and tortured. There was one 7 year old boy listed in the table as having had 26 orgasms in a 24 hour period. She wants to know if these children were given any rest breaks; who were these so called "partners"; what ever became of the children they molested for Kinsey's study; and isn't this considered child abuse? Reisman attributes much of the change in America's sexual morality to Kinsey's biggest follower: Hugh Hefner, publisher of Playboy. In Playboy's first issue, which came out in 1953, Hefner stated "we will continue where Kinsey left off." ED EICHEL, co-author of "Kinsey, Sex and Fraud: The Indoctrination of a People." Eichel is Jewish. He was a Fine Arts major in college. "Ramifications of the Kinsey Lie" There is a link between contraception and homosexuality: Contraception eliminates responsibility from sex. This is similar to homosexual sex because heterosexual sex with contraception and homosexual sex both are without the risk of pregnancy. This makes casual sex permissible. As a sex researcher, Eichel does research only with people in committed, monogamous relationships. On sexual intercourse: Heterosexual parents didn't want their kids having sex and pre-marital intercourse so they'd have children too early. The homosexuals responded and said "great." Let's teach masturbation and homosexuality. Eichel says gays move in every profession that touches sexuality. As concerned heterosexuals, we have to learn the vocabulary because they [gays] get in there and grab a vice on it. He went over a detailed outline of the sex research network in the United States. His sex research not only doesn't fit the Kinsean model, it challenges it. Since the rest of the sex research community embraces Kinsey and cites Kinsey in their studies, their reputations are threatened by his research. Therefore, he has been excluded from the general sex research community. Eichel stated that basic values are similar in almost everybody. Gay males do not think promiscuity is a good idea. To find research subjects, Kinsey went to bars, not to gays who were in relationships of 20 years. Eichel worked on an AIDS Hot Line for 6 months. In lesbian literature, there is writing of women betraying their position [of being a lesbian] and having [heterosexual] intercourse. Sexually, man is more physical than woman. Woman is more emotional than man. In heterosexual sex man comes from physical towards emotional, woman comes from emotional toward physical and they cross over. In homosexual sex, there is no cross over, so it never goes anywhere except to lead to more sex. The art field is dominated by gays all the way to museum curators. Gay art is almost exclusively sexual. [After the conference, I had a brief talk with Mr. Eichel regarding the association that he and his co-author, Judith Reisman, have established with the Traditional Values Coalition. I told him that while there was much discussion during the conference regarding the "gay agenda," I wondered whether he was familiar with the "religious right's agenda." He said, we all have our agendas and that he has been unable to work as a sex researcher because of the way the gays practically own the field.] [I called to his attention that for one thing, he and Reisman are both Jewish, that the assistant pastor of the church which hosted the meeting told me that no matter who you are, unless you accept Jesus, his faith teaches that you will not go to heaven. I told Eichel that the church's position on that matter was intrinsically anti-semitic because it requires Jews and others to renounce their faiths.] [I also pointed out to him that Traditional Values sells a video tape in which they attempt to show that the concept of separation of church and state is a myth. That this long held legal precept is not in the U.S. Constitution but was conceived by Thomas Jefferson, who was an atheist. Never mind the Christian biblical passage which declares "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar and render unto the Lord that which is the Lord's."] [Finally, I reminded him that these people are also trying to have creationism taught in schools.] [I don't know if I made an impression on Eichel, since they do offer him a platform on which to speak, and they do sell his books. But I hope that I left some mark on his conscience. I also told him that I bought two copies of his book because if true, the methods used by Alfred Kinsey are certainly shocking and scandalous. I also told him that I felt that whether 10% or 2% of the population are "constitutionally homosexual," I still did not consider that to be a justification for discrimination.] DR. JOSEPH NICOLOSI. His book "Reparative Therapy of the Male Homosexual," published by J. Aronson will be coming out this summer. Nicolosi is Catholic. He is a psychotherapist with a practice of repairing the non-gay homosexual to be a healthy heterosexual. "Reparative Therapy for Homosexuality" The literature states: "The only way to treat the homosexuality is to accept it." Nicolosi has worked with 131 men to treat their homosexuality. He calls them "non-gay homosexuals." Nicolosi claims the gay movement equates homosexuality with gayness. [I disagree. I think the gay movement recognizes that there are homosexuals who are not gay.] Most of the men in Nicolosi's practice are in their 20's--the time when a commitment to be gay is usually made. Nicolosi claims Psychology is neglecting the non-gay homosexual. The treatment of a recovering homosexual is long-term--perhaps, life long. McWhirter and Mattison did a study ["The Male Couple," Prentice- Hall, 1984] attempting to disprove promiscuity. They found 128 of the very best relationships. Nevertheless, they could not find one relationship that remained faithful after the fifth year. Gay culture is sexual. Art and clothing are examples of the sexual state of gay culture. What percentage of the homosexual community is non-gay? Nicolosi doesn't know. The non-gay homosexual doesn't want to be identified. Serial monogamy is a monogamous relationship followed by another monogamous relationship. Is there a set that have serial monogamy? Nicolosi says "yes." Nicolosi says the ones that do best in reparative therapy are not involved in the gay scene. Psychology is an application of philosophy. The causes and treatment of homosexuality: Homosexuality is caused by a gender identity problem. Children are first emotionally bonded to their mother. Around the 18th month, a child figures there are both male and female. An infant at 15 months can have androgynous fantasies that it can have a penis and have babies. [I asked Nicolosi to repeat that statement to be sure I heard it right, and he did restate for me that he believes that an 18 month old baby fantasizes having babies. I, personally, don't believe him, because the baby isn't even old enough to ask its parents where babies come from.] Nicolosi states there is a flaw in the parent/child relationship. There is a "Cold, distant, detached father--child withdraws to the mother." Usually, the homosexual has a poor relationship with an older brother, but primarily has his closest relationship with mother or older sister. "Kitchen window boy." Always is neat and clean. Never gets naughty or into trouble. Homosexual men relate easily with women. They have trouble relating with men. A boy can't talk to his father, so he talks to his mother. When asked what kind of man are you attracted to, he will give a description of what he is not. It's an attempt to obtain what he is not. "Your sexual drive is an attempt to heal yourself. You are trying to bond with a part of your person that you did not get." The father of the homosexual knows nothing of his grandfather. Gay novels make fathers a mystery. Nicolosi states that an absent father is not as damaging as a rejecting father. Lesbians experience a lot of frustrated or unfulfilled emotional needs denied from their mothers. There is an unconscious affectional deprivation. Coming out is a lifetime process. Reconciling gayness and continual confrontation of overcoming your own homophobia. MARK SATERLEE, [apparently in his early 20's] was raised in a fundamentalist Christian home, is a member of Homosexuals Anonymous and is a former patient of Nicolosi's. He stood up in the audience to read a statement which he referred to as a "testimony." He declared Nicolosi and his methods a "fraud." For example, Nicolosi gave Saterlee four assignments to help with his reparative therapy. One assignment was to join a gym. Saterlee found that when he joined the gym, it only served as a vehicle to meet more gay men. He was critical of Nicolosi's $120 per hour fee because he spent this money on good faith that he would be 'cured' of his homosexuality. Instead, Nicolosi's treatment only made him more confused. JIM JOHNSON, "Fulfilling a Mission...Going Beyond Rejection." A Christian and recovering homosexual. Has three ex-lovers with whom he is still friends. Johnson ran "Beyond Rejection," a Christian AIDS ministry in Long Beach which received 67% of its money from non-Christians. He said that most homosexuals wouldn't want a "pill" today because of the current socio-political environment. [I presume this means that in the 50's if a hetero pill was available, a homosexual would take it, but since it is much more acceptable to be gay today, that gays are basically happy the way they are and would not take a pill to become heterosexual, even if one was offered.] Last January was Johnson's 10th anniversary being free of cocaine. Johnson believes that all sex is learned. He opposes Project 10 because it fixates a child on sexuality. He believes that unnatural birth control is at the root of pseudo sex. He acknowledges that the stories are true and that there are co- founders of ex-gay ministries that have gone back to the gay lifestyle. [He must be referring to Michael Bussee, who co-founded EXIT in Anaheim, California in 1975. (This International ex-gay umbrella referral agency is now called Exodus International and is based in San Ramon, CA.) "I counseled ... hundreds of people...who tried to change their sexual orientation and none of them [were] successful." said Bussee, who was married in 1974 and worked at EXIT for about four years. He left his marriage and ministry in early 1979 to become lovers with another married man from EXIT. A profile of their lives together appeared in the Advocate in 1990. The two men are still together and still believe they are 'born again.'] Johnson states that he left the ex-gay ministry because he is not capable of counseling ex-gays because he has not yet arrived [at being a fully recovered homosexual]. Johnson was very surprised after his father's death to learn that one of his ex-lovers was appointed as executor of his [Johnson's] father's estate. Johnson says gay ghettos exist because gay people are rejected or perceive they are rejected. SATURDAY, MARCH 9, 1991 TY BEESON, a televangelest from the California's Antelope Valley, provided "A Biblical Perspective, Part II." Beeson is Christian. In the beginning there was Law and Order. God sets before us life/blessing or death/cursing. Beeson calls the Kinsey statistic of 10-37% gay or bisexual a fallacy: If you go down the street and knock on 10 doors you will not find a homosexual or a lesbian behind 1 of them on average. [I think he fails to acknowledge ghettos. Anaheim, for example, is an evangelical Christian ghetto. In most of the neighborhoods I have lived for the past 15 years, I would be surprised if I found an average occupancy of ONLY 10% gay or lesbian.] The word "Deuteronomy" means "second law." Beeson claims that "you can find a cure to AIDS, but there's going to be something else." >From Romans Chapter 1, Beeson deduces that the teaching of evolution in the schools opens the door to our children to believe a lie, because you're only teaching children that they're only a higher form of animal. From this, Beeson determines that a lot of perverted thinking is coming out of the intellectual community. God promises disease for those who use their body parts wrong. [Has Beeson ever heard of Tay Sacks Disease or Sickle-Cell Anemia which are more common among Jews or Blacks, respectively, but are not considered to be a punishment? Is he unaware that California property tax crusader, Paul Gann and a nun, who were not known for using their body parts "wrong," died of AIDS early in the epidemic? Does he know that an HIV negative homosexual can have multiple safe sex encounters and never catch AIDS? Has he considered that HIV can be transmitted via via heterosexual sex and is virtually not transmissible via lesbian sexual contact?] DR. JUDITH REISIMAN, co-author of "Kinsey, Sex and Fraud: The Indoctrination of a People." Reisman is Jewish. "The Effect of Kinsey on Law, Public Policy and Education." The Southland Corporation cited Judith Reisman's research as the only piece of research they needed to reach their decision to pull Penthouse and Playboy out of their 7-11 convenience stores. Dr. Kinsey established that children were sexual from birth. His #1 disciple was Hugh Hefner. Between these two men, the sexual revolution got kicked-off. Society is being programmed into a homosexual mode. In the first issue of Playboy, Hugh Hefner said he was "continuing down the road of Alfred Kinsey." Reisman states that "If you want to violate people, you must first teach people how to laugh at them." She then gave a slide presentation of examples of cartoons that appeared in Playboy, Penthouse and Forum magazines in the 70's in which women were laughed at, sex with animals and sex with children were portrayed. The elderly were portrayed as lecherous. Reisman says that cartoons are particularly attractive to children. So kids love too look at Playboy and read the cartoons. A key in public policy is vocabulary. The concept of "perversion" is has been eliminated. The new term is "variations." Variations like group sex, masturbation, incest, fellatio, bestiality, bisexuality, prostitution, S&M, anal intercourse, enemas and homosexuality. Reisman states "there is no such thing as sadism and masochism. There is sadism and sadism alone." It is heart breaking to allow that to happen. [I.e, to see a person submit to a sadist .] Reisman recommended reading: The Journal of Sex Education and Therapy Spring/Summer 1985. "The Future of Sex Education." Definition: Pornography is private space behavior in a public space forum. The Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality published "Safe Sex" education material. The faculty is anti-heterophilia, anti- family and pro-pornography. Heterophilia is a man's love for a woman and a woman's love for a man The major point of Reisman's talk was to point out that the sex educators of this country are backed by the pornographers. She proved her point by showing the rosters of the people who head all of the sex research organizations in the country and then stated what pornographic magazines they work for or publish. In Playboy, March 1991, there was printed a remark which made a statement to a person named Judith that they wished they had a .357 magnum to use on her. [Judith Reisman made a very logical conclusion that Playboy was threatening her life.] ED EICHEL, co-author of "Kinsey, Sex and Fraud: "The Effect of Kinsean Model in Education." [I did not attend most of this lecture.] Eichel stated that he wants there to be a moratorium on any paper that cites Kinsey. He stated that the Lancet ran an article that says the Kinsey data must be reexamined. WILLIAM DANNENMEYER, U.S. Congressman from California's 39th district. 2351 Rayburn H.O.B., Washington, DC 20515, (202) 225-4111, 1235 North Harbor Blvd., #100, Fullerton, CA 92632, (714) 992-0141. "The Political Agenda of the Homosexual Movement." Dannenmeyer is a senior member of the Health and Environment Committee of the House. This committee has jurisdiction over health care issues in the U.S. Dannenmeyer stated that California Assembly Bill #403 (Agnos) was the first bill to politicize AIDS: In California, there was in place a long tradition of contact tracing for "curable venereal diseases." However, AB-403 made it a crime if a health care practitioner reported to the health department a patient that was exposed to a "non-curable venereal disease." The bill created "alternative test centers" which test people for HIV infection free of charge and not make any effort to trace contacts. "This," Dannenmeyer said, "is testimony of the political clout of the male homosexual community." Dannenmeyer says this political clout is changing through the help, for example, of Dr. Billy Jones, the President of the Arkansas Medical Society (?). He was successful at persuading the liberal AMA to support a policy of contact tracing. He has now put the gay community on the defensive. In 1988 Dannenmeyer offered an amendment to an AIDS funding bill which would have required that states have a policy of HIV contact tracing in place before any federal funds would go to that state. The amendment received only 75 votes. Later, Dannenmeyer read in the Congressional Quarterly that the homosexuals had 60 lobbyists walk the halls of Congress for the 2 weeks before the vote. Two years later, Dannenmeyer brought up the amendment on another bill and got 135 votes. [Dannenmeyer is referring here to H.R. 4785, the AIDS Prevention Act of 1990. This bill was later merged with a Senate bill, S. 2240 and signed by the President. It is known as the "Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act of 1990, Public Law 101-381." Copies of public laws, house bills and committee reports can be obtained from the HOUSE DOCUMENT ROOM, B-18, Annex #2, Washington, DC 20515 (202) 225-3456. Copies of senate bills and committee reports can be obtained from the SENATE DOCUMENT ROOM, B-04, Hart Senate Office Building, Washington, DC 20510 (202) 224-7860.] Dannenmeyer is still short of the required 218 votes to get his contact tracing amendment through, but he is encouraged that he got more votes in 1990, and he will try again in the current session of congress. The AMA came up against his amendment because they felt that as a federal mandate to States, it would violate the states rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. Dannenmeyer pointed out that that was a surprising position for the liberal AMA to take because liberals so often like federal mandates to States. [Dannenmeyer then read the key points of the homosexual agenda. He said the agenda is published. I did not take notes because he is correct. It is published and anybody can get a copy by asking the NGLTF to send them a copy of their National Lobby Days packet. National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Policy Institute, 1734 Fourteenth Street, NW, Washington, DC 20009-4309 (202) 332-6483] Dannenmeyer said that Volume 3 of the HHS Report on Youth Suicide. It said the root problem is a society that stigmatizes homosexuality. We must accept a homosexual orientation. ["Report of the Secretary's Task Force on Youth Suicide," the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. This report is available from the U.S. Government Printing Office. (202) 783-3238.] Louis Sullivan later wrote to Representatives Dornan and Dannenmeyer stating that those statements did not represent his opinion or that of the U.S. Government. The Hate Crimes Bill [Public Law 101-275, "Hate Crimes Statistics Act."] gave the homosexuals a toll-free number to call the Justice Department to report hate crimes. He said that a hate crime can be reported even if all that happened was someone declined a sexual advance. Someone in the President's office invited members of the gay lobby to the bill signing, and the gay community made a big deal about it. Later that year, when the President signed the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990, [Public Law 101-336] Dannenmeyer found no record of members of the gay lobby being invited to the bill signing. Nevertheless, the gays showed up and then later held a press conference about it. In California, now before the legislature is Assembly Bill 101. He discussed former California Governor George Dukemejian's vetoes of its counterpart, AB-1 in 1983 and 1984. Dannenmeyer predicted that AB-101 will pass, concedes that the gay republicans believe Governor Pete Wilson will sign it, so he called for an initiative to have AB-101 repealed as soon as it passes. For an analysis of the ramifications of what would happen if this bill becomes law, one need only look to a case in Madison, Wisconsin. There were two female students who advertised for a roommate. A lesbian applied. The two women, not wanting to share their home with a lesbian, turned the applicant down. The lesbian took her case before a human rights commission and won a $1,500 judgement against the women. Furthermore, the women were required to attend a class on sensitivity towards homosexuality, and submit to having their home life monitored by the human rights commission for two years. [Members of ACT/UP Orange County disrupted Dannenmeyer's lecture at 11:55 a.m.] [One of the last bills of the 101st Congress signed into law was the Immigration Act of 1990, Public Law 101-649. It eliminated the clause on sexual deviance which opened the doors of this country to gay immigrants and tourists. It also authorized the Secretary of Health and Human Services to lift the ban on permitting people with HIV to enter our country. Secretary Louis Sullivan announced that he was going to lift the ban if, after 30 days, Congress didn't convince him not to.] Dannenmeyer said HHS received many letters regarding Congressional objections to Immigration with HIV. [Dannenmeyer smiled about this, but I could not hear if that meant the Sullivan decided not to lift the HIV immigration ban.] GIL FERGUSON, California State Assemblyman for Balboa Island, 70th Assembly District. State Capitol, Room #2016, P.O. Box 942849, Sacramento, CA 94249-0001, (916) 445-7222. 4667 MacArthur Blvd., #201, Newport Beach, CA 92660, (714) 756-0665. "The Sacramento Scene." Lou Sheldon introduced Ferguson as the man who had introduced a bill in California state legislature that will stop Project 10 right in its tracks. [At the conclusion of Ferguson's talk, I asked what the bill number was.] Ferguson said Sheldon was referring to a bill which called for the castration of rapists and that it was just given its bill number on Friday so he didn't know what the number was. Someone in the audience yelled out AB #1499. [To order a copy of a California legislative bill, contact the Legislative Bill Room, State Capitol, Room B-32, Sacramento, CA 95814, (916) 445-2323.] [I have a relative who is a Professor of Criminal Justice at a university in the Midwest. I asked him for his opinion on castration of rapists; I asked him wouldn't that be considered unusual or cruel? He said that this method of punishment was tried in Scandinavia. However, since rape is a violent crime and not a sexual crime, they found that former rapists continued to attack women, they just attacked them with other objects like broken bottles or a pipe. Rapists, when offered a choice of staying in prison or getting parole with castration, usually chose prison. The form of castration usually used is chemical, not surgical. The castration drug is not permanent and has to be taken periodically, so a convicted rapist would most likely have to submit to a periodic blood or urine test to confirm that he was in fact taking the castration drug.] Ferguson asks, why do legislators vote for AB-1 when they know people are dying? [Since AB-1, vetoed by Governor Dukemejian twice in 1983 and 1984 would have prohibited employment discrimination based on sexual orientation, I am at a loss to understand what kind of logic he used to find a relationship between employment discrimination saving lives.] He said the reason was similar to why people in Congress vote for tobacco subsidies then they know people are dying from smoking. Basically, it is politics. They do it because they need the votes, they need the campaign contributions, or they need to collaborate with another legislator by voting for the other guy's bill in exchange for a vote on his bill. [I was trying to be non-antagonistic at this meeting, so I did not ask if he would care to elaborate on why William Dannenmeyer and Jesse Helms received so much campaign funding from the tobacco industry.] Ferguson stated that Terry Friedman, the member of the State Assembly who introduced AB-101 is from West Hollywood where the entire city council is either lesbian or homosexual. [Ferguson is wrong. In fact, only one member of the West Hollywood city council is gay. That's Mayor John Heilman.] DR. JOHN COURT, Editor of the book, "Kinsey Sex and Fraud." He is Australian. Dr. Court read excerpts out of a report from the Presbyterian Church on the status of homosexual in the church. At issue is the question of welcoming homosexuals and lesbians into the Presbyterian Church and possibly permitting them to be ordained. For a copy of the report, "Keeping Body and Soul Together," (report and minority report) send $5 to Dist. Management Services. 100 Witherspoon Street, Room 1425A, Louisville, Kentucky, 40202. DR. JOSEPH NICOLOSI. His book "Reparative Therapy of the Male Homosexual," published by J. Aronson will be coming out this summer. Nicolosi is Catholic. He is a psychotherapist with a practice of repairing the non-gay homosexual to be a healthy heterosexual. "The Harmful Effects of Project 10" The Seven Fallacies of Project 10: 1) Project 10 gets its title from Kinsey's 10% figure. Nicolosi cited other studies showing that the correct number is far less than 10%: Smith (1989) 1%, Irving & Bebe 1-2%, Hunt (1974) 2- 3%, William Siden 2-3%. Nicolosi felt that to be generous, the number 2-1/2% was fair. However, the question of the actual percentage has significant Political and psychological ramifications. Politically, one has much more clout in requesting funding if one says a particular program will benefit 10% of the population, rather than saying it will only benefit 2-1/2%. Psychologically, if a classroom full of children is told that 10% of them will probably end up homosexual, it has a much greater affirmation effect than if the class is told only 2-1/5% of them may grow up homosexual. Told the smaller number, the children would be less likely to consider homosexuality because they would conclude from its rarity that it is strange or weird. 2) Project 10's guide book states that a person with homosexual tendencies or behavior is determined to be homosexual. Nicolosi says that a tendency or an incident of behavior should not be considered sufficient to label an adolescent as being homosexual. 3) Gays equate being homosexual with being gay. "If he's not gay, he's just not out of the closet yet." Nicolosi says that just because a person is homosexual, it does not mean he's gay. [I thought that many people in the gay community agreed with Nicolosi on this. The GLAAD/LA newsletter Vol. 2, No. 10, October 1990 states that the CBS September 10, 1990 "Face to Face with Connie Chung" show stated 85% of the men who frequent rest-stops do not self-identify as gay or bisexual and are engaged in heterosexual relationships with women who do not know about the men's bisexuality. I inferred from GLAAD's apparent agreement with this figure that "the gay community" does agree that there are "non-gay homosexuals." Copies of GLAAD/LA's newsletters are available from GLAAD/LA, P.O. Box 931763, Los Angeles, CA 90093-1763 (213) 931-9429. This is a new address effective 3/91.] 4) The "neutral counselor." Project 10's guidebook requires that a suspected homosexual student be interviewed by a "neutral counselor." However, this counselor must be a volunteer and gay identified. Nicolosi says the requirement that the counselors be gay is hardly neutral. He defines the psychological concept of "cognitive dissidence," and says it plays an important role here. Cognitive dissidence means "the greater price you pay--the more you will fight to defend it." That is, the gay counselor, in order to justify his own homosexuality will be compelled to find and declare these referred students to be gay. Furthermore, using the disputed 10% figure, if the counselor finds that, say, only 8% of the students in school are homosexual, he will end up needing to find 2% more in order to make quota. 5) Gay students have a higher drop out, suicide, alcohol and drug use rate. We need to reinforce the students' homosexuality by encouraging them to be gay in order to help them with these other problems. Nicolosi does not see how reinforcing homosexuality to a child with homosexual tendencies will prevent the other social problems because adult gays suffer from a high suicide, alcohol and drug use rate, too. Gays rationalize this as a reaction to homophobia. 6) "You are now one of us." Nicolosi says Project 10 is gay recruitment because it is an exclusively funded "club" with a special grant, and it has its own designated classroom in which the other students are not allowed. Inside this room the student is told "your heterosexual parents and counsellors don't understand you, but you're now 'one of us.' You must now mourn the fact that you'll never get married or have children, because it is all internalized homophobia." If the students have a problem, they are never referred to a heterosexual counselor. The referrals are the Gay and Lesbian Community Services Center, Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, and sex crisis lines. 7) The biggest fallacy of them all: Project 10 is a program to counsel the "gay identified adolescent." Nicolosi says "There is no such thing as a gay adolescent." He may have homosexual tendencies, but he's too young to make the decision to be gay until he's ready to come to terms with his homosexuality. Nicolosi believes that if you look into the life of a great homosexual in history, you will find that he became great not because he was homosexual but in spite of his homosexuality. Nicolosi has had trouble talking to Virginia Uribe, the founder of Project 10. She won't return his phone calls because she knows who he is. However, he once met her somewhere and asked her, "can you provide documentation of what you've done with the Project 10 grant money?" Uribe told him she couldn't because she had no data. So Nicolosi is going to call for an investigation to see exactly what she has done with her grant money. Instead of Project 10, Nicolosi is going to propose an alternative which he calls "Project 2-1/2." It will require no grant money and no volunteers. It will work with the already existing staff. "We don't have to address homosexuality--just affirm the person and work with the suicidal tendencies, alcoholism and drug use. We should involve parents and not bring in gay activists." Finally, "parents must become educated." Nicolosi predicts that his Project 2-1/2 proposal will find resistance chiefly from two groups: A) Liberals and B) Militant Gays. One can counter liberals by providing the facts. One can counter the militant gays by just saying "No, you can't do this to our children." Nicolosi says the gay community laughs at the separation of gay and homosexual terms. He says you can't be gay and Christian, however you can be homosexual and Christian. As a Christian community, we must become more aware of the non-gay homosexual. We don't know how many non-gay homosexuals get married and have kids because these people don't want to be identified. Nicolosi said that it is a mistake to lump homosexuals and pedophiles together. Most homosexuals are attracted to very masculine men. Pedophiles are completely different. It is a completely different set of circumstances in which men become pedophiles. While his practice is mostly young men trying to recover from their homosexuality, he has occasionally taken pedophiles into his practice as a result of a court order. Nicolosi observed that pedophiles never feel any guilt. They truly believe that the sex they have with children is not damaging to the child and that they are merely showing the child love. Typically, the pedophile did not receive any love from his father while growing up. DAWN SITOR, a woman who is working to stop Project 10 from being established in Seattle, Washington, commented that "the literature suggests that 80-90% of lesbians had been abused either sexually, physically, or emotionally by their father while the mother sat by and did nothing." That is why many lesbians express behavior such as "dykes on bikes" or experience excessive obesity. Nicolosi believes that every homosexual is a latent heterosexual. He suggests that the more militant gays become, the less support they will receive from the community, and also the more gay bashing will increase. Gays mistakenly consider gay bashing to be a hate crime when it is, according to Nicolosi, actually just a reaction to their militancy. A gay protest is an example of how gays are immature. Gay protests must always be theatrical. They must be larger than life and provocative. He says this is because, as children, the boys were repressed. They were not naughty. They never soiled their clothes. Now as adults, they're acting out while heterosexual men are perceived as boring. A woman in the audience said she did not want to raise a homosexual child and asked what book he recommended that she read. Nicolosi suggested Riker's (?) book, "Growing Up Straight," but unfortunately, it is out of print. Another person in the audience said that the ex-gay ministry Beyond Rejection (Long Beach, California), had a couple of copies left. INTERACTIVE PANEL. [The last presentation was a panel of speakers who discussed various aspects of Project 10, the work they are doing to defeat it, and homosexual reparative therapy. I did not take notes on it.] COMMENTS ACT-UP/ORANGE COUNTY ACTION [I believe there were only three demonstrators actually inside the Power Community Church. They did not break into the room. They must have paid admission. They were conservatively dressed. The leader, a portly white man, got out of his seat during Dannenmeyer's presentation and stated that he was ACT UP Orange County, and that this was a peaceful demonstration. He stood next to the podium where Congressman Dannenmeyer was standing, faced the audience, opened a big book and started reading. One of the CCTV's speakers, Ed Eichel, approached the man and they started yelling at each other. [The other two demonstrators, a white man and a white woman went onto the stage area of the chapel. They knelt onto their knees and held signs which said "Prey to End Gay Bashing."] [The audience became very angry. They yelled. They praised God. They sang. One of the two black women in attendance (who, by the way, was just accepted into law school) yelled at the top of her lungs that she objected to gay people being so disruptive because she is afraid that they may eventually end up "nullifying everything" that the black community has worked so hard and so long to achieve. One woman yelled at them, "Get off of your knees. There is no gay God!"] [Members of the Anaheim Police Department entered the room, put on what appeared to be black leather gloves, they then approached the demonstrators and removed them.] [Afterwards, Dannenmeyer finished his lecture and left via the back door of the church, but unlike a hotel, the church has only one driveway, so Dannenmeyer was forced to drive past the 200 or so demonstrators outside. Sal Lucarello, GLAAD/LA, ACT-UP/LA and Queer Nation/LA member called me that night and mentioned to me that he enjoyed giving Dannenmeyer "the finger" as he was forced to drive by the crowd.] [Lou Sheldon answered questions about the demonstration. In particular, members of the audience wanted to know why, even with the new California State Law which prohibits disruption of a church service, they could not remove the demonstrators themselves. Sheldon explained that the moment you stand in front of someone you have assaulted them. If you touch them, that's battery. By attempting to remove the demonstrators themselves, they could have subjected themselves to a lawsuit which they would then have to defend. Sheldon concluded that like Cardinal O'Connor of New York, it is best to just ignore the demonstrators entirely and wait for the police to remove them.] [I was asked throughout the afternoon by various people why gays behave the way they do with these demonstrations. Don't they realize that they're only polarizing the two groups? For example, Christians don't disrupt gay meetings.] [I told them that while I personally find the demonstrations that I have gone to embarrassing, one must first recognize that while Christians have not disrupted gay meetings, they have instead blown-up abortion mills while ACT-UP only throws red paint.] [Second, people with AIDS are faced with death 18 to 24 months after diagnosis. They are frustrated, scared and dying. These demonstrations are the result of what happens when one feels backed into a corner. As a Los Angeles resident, I pointed out that most of ACT- UP/LA's demonstrations have been centered around the L.A. County Board of Supervisors because one-third of the people with AIDS in Los Angeles County use County Hospital. If a person goes to an alternative test center, learns that he has tested positive to HIV, and then goes to County Hospital to request early intervention medical care, that person is told that the next available appointment to see a doctor is in 16 weeks.] [Finally, for all of the disagreement within the gay community regarding ACT-UP's tactics being appropriate or not, there is no argument that ACT-UP has made dramatic achievements at improving the access to medical care, reductions in AZT's price, and rapid approval for compassionate use of experimental drugs.] DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION [Lunch both days was served in the Church recreation room. I had the mixed blessing having to sit with people with whom I was at political odds if I wanted to eat lunch. Both days I was subjected to intense homophobia and cross examination. Frankly, it made me nervous and caused me to lose my appetite.] [On the first day of the symposium, I sat at a table with a woman and two other men. I was nervous because nobody knew I was gay yet, so I just sat quietly and tried to eat my food. Finally, the man sitting closest to me decided it was time to include me in on the conversation. He asked what brought me to the conference. At that moment, I decided not to lie, so I announced that "I am a member of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, and I'm here to take notes."] [I was flabbergasted, and spent a sleepless night because of my anger resulting from the first response from the table. The woman said, "Well, it's so nice to see that you're behaving yourself." I should point out that I attended the conference dressed like I go to work: Black shoes, pants, a belt, an ironed dress shirt (medium starch) a tie, and two Cross pens in my pocket. I did not wear my little diamond ear- stud, however.] [I responded to the woman, "why? How would you expect me to behave?" She said, "well, I usually expect you people to try to be disruptive." I told her I was here to take notes, that as far as I knew, there would be a peaceful demonstration outside, but no disruption was planned. Nevertheless, I was shocked that the moment this woman learned I was a homosexual, she could not deal with me as a human being.] [The man sitting next to her asked me if I ever had heard of NAMBLA. I said, "The National Association of Man Boy Love? Yes, what about it?" He then started yelling at me. "Why did you people let them march in your parade?" I told him that as far as I knew, Christopher Street West, the organization which puts on the Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade, did not ever permit NAMBLA to march and that NAMBLA only ended up marching in the parade in 1987 because they sneaked in and marched with the U.S. out of El Salvador contingent. He said, no, he meant the March on Washington. I told him I knew nothing about any participation by NAMBLA at the March on Washington. (Actually I was at the March on Washington on October 11, 1987, but I do not know if NAMBLA was there or not. Some else later told me that NAMBLA was meeting in Baltimore then because the March on Washington Committee also would not let them participate.) In any case, the man lost his temper and left the table.] [The woman told me that the reason she was at the symposium was she was on the committee in Riverside, California to repeal their HIV non-discrimination ordinance. I began to talk to her about employment discrimination based on sexual orientation and she said that as long as someone keeps the fact that they are a homosexual private, they should not be discriminated against. I asked what if someone finds out? She didn't see how someone would find out if the person kept it quiet.] [I asked her about this situation: I have a friend who has been in the Army for more than 10 years. My friend is currently in Saudi Arabia. My friend was a beneficiary on an insurance policy for someone who died and plans to use the money take care of his parents after he retires from the service. However, if he is found out, and is discharged because "homosexuality is not compatible with military service," my friend's ability to care for his parents would be compromised. I asked the woman if she still felt that my friend should be discharged. She said "yes, if he's found out, it would be incompatible and disruptive to the service." I said the DoD completed two studies in 1988 and 1989 which proved that sexual orientation is not a factor in military compatibility. The woman said that the Navy had made a study and found that it is.] [I told her I didn't know about any Navy study, but the studies I referred to were performed for DoD by PERSEREC. (The PERSEREC reports were exposed by Congressman Gerry E. Studds of Massachusetts. These reports were published in 1990 by Alyson Publishing in a book called "Gays In Uniform--The Pentagon's Secret Papers.") The lady stood her ground and insisted that my friend should be discharged. I asked if a man rapes a woman, should he be discharged? She said "yes." I said, that was my point. In America, everyone is guaranteed liberty and justice. Justice is equal application of the law. In one case, a person committed a crime, in the other case the discrimination is completely arbitrary. "That is not justice." The woman excused herself and left the table.] TREATMENT OF GAY CHILDREN BY CHRISTIAN VS. JEWISH PARENTS [The only remaining person at the table was one man. He told me that he was a minister from a church in Carson, California. I related the following stories to him:] [For the last 10 years of my father's life, I spoke to him on the phone every day. Now that he is gone, I visit my mother twice a week. When she has an auto accident I take her to the insurance company. When she needs to go to the attorney to settle my father's estate, I take her.] [I have two other friends, Jeff and Warren, who have been together for 14 years. Warren took care of his mother until she died last month. Jeff and Warren both arranged for the mother to be returned to New York to be buried next to Warren's father.] [I had a friend named Rick who was in the hospital dying of AIDS for 5-1/2 months. His lover, Martin, and his parents visited him in the hospital every day. I visited Rick twice a week. When Rick died, his father and lover went through his condo together to get it ready for sale. I was a pall bearer at the funeral, and Martin was treated like a member of the family.] [My family, Jeff, Warren, and Rick's family are all Jewish.] [My roommate Alex had a lover named Bob. Bob suffered from AIDS for five years. All this past summer, Alex and I visited Bob twice a week to do his yard work, vacuum his rugs, wash his clothes, bathe him and see to it that his herpes sores were bandaged. During the entire five year period, Bob's father gave him a total of $500, and would not visit him until the very end. When Bob was dying in the hospital, the father emptied out the apartment.] [For the past week, a young man with AIDS has been staying at my house because his parents wouldn't let him live with them anymore.] [Bob's and this young man's families are Christian.] [I told the minister that the Christian community has a lot to learn about staying together. The organization which is putting on this symposium refers to homosexuality as the destruction of the American Family. I say that the act of a parent throwing a child out on the street is what destroys a family. In my family, and the other Jewish families I described, homosexuality did not destroy them. In fact, if my parents through me out of the house or refused to continue to support me when they found out that I was gay, I probably would not have finished school. I probably wouldn't have the job I have or own a home. In fact, I probably wouldn't be alive today. And the pay back is we gay children are now in the position where we are available to care for our aging parents while our heterosexual siblings take care of their own growing families. Furthermore, we are charged with caring for the Christian community's cast-offs.] [I asked the minister from Carson that when he counsels members of his congregation who are dealing with a homosexual child, not to throw the child out on the street. Continue to love and support the child because throwing a child out on the street is what is really destroying American Families.] [The minister said "thank you for the advice."] DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF HIV INFECTION [On the second day of the symposium, a woman broke the ice with me in the usual way: "so what brings you here?" This woman's first response was an interrogation about what made me a homosexual. I answered her question with a question: "What happened in your life that caused you to chose to be heterosexual?" She laughed at the ridiculousness of my question and told me that nothing did, it's obvious, because that's the natural way people are supposed to be. I could tell I wasn't going to get anywhere and the conversation became less and less rational as both of our tempers heated up.] [Finally, we somehow got onto the subject of discrimination. I was telling her that no matter how much she may not care for homosexuality, refusing to hire someone simply for being gay is arbitrary. She felt that that was tantamount to suggesting that she also be forced to hire a drug addict or a prostitute.] [When the conversation somehow got to the subject of HIV transmission, I told her "Look, I spent the last five and one-half months visiting a friend in the hospital who recently died of AIDS. Every day I massaged his feet for an hour. A person with AIDS and active Kaposi Sarcoma has spent the last week in my house." Then I leaned toward her, looked her straight in the eye and asked, "do you think you're going to catch AIDS from me?" There was a look of terror in her eyes, but then she relaxed and told me, "No. I'm protected."] [At that point, a man also sitting at our table identified himself as being on the staff of Los Angeles County Supervisor Mike Antonovich. He explained to me that it is not the communication of the HIV virus itself that is why they are against HIV non-discrimination laws. It is the fact that people with AIDS come down with all kinds of other infections like tuberculosis, for which they don't test positive. They bring these other diseases which he claims are casually transmissible to the work place.] [So, casual transmission of HIV-related opportunistic infections, not HIV itself, is the latest fear being presented by the religious right as a reason to recall or prevent passage of HIV non-discrimination laws.]