Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 09:50:59 -0400 From: DMack@aol.com In case you do not have your minutes from the Paedophilia Plenary in 1994, they follow: ILGA 16th Annual World conference Minutes Paedophilia Membership Plenary 30 June 1994 Chairs Suzy Byrne, Bassy Minutes Philip Collins Start Time 09:45 1. Household Matters Nominations for Co-Secretary Generals close at 13:00 Friday 1 July 1994. Nominations can be made on the board in the registration area. Will delegates please collect material from their boxes regularly. 2. New members The following groups were welcomed as full members of ILGA. Bermuda Human Rights Alliance Brazil Grupo Lesbian de Bahia Canada Concordia Queer Collective Croatia AIDS Info Guatemala Association Gay/Lesbian Guatemateca Italy Triangulo Silenzioso Nicaragua Colectivo 'Nostras" Nicaragua Fundacion Xochiquetzal Puerto Rico Coalicion Puertoriguena de Lesbianas y Homosexuals UK Countdown on Spanner Indonesia Ipoos Gaya Betawi 3. Motion to Expell 3.1 Proposal Jenny Wilson (JW) of the Financial Secretariat, spoke to the motion: "The Secretariat's Committee moves that NAMBLA, Vereniging Martijn and Project Truth/Free Will be expelled from ILGA membership." JW gave some background to the motion: - Moves had been made since 1988, by many individual organisations, to address the paedophile issue. This had come to a head with the UN recognition problem. - UN observer status was very important as it gave ILGA a voice to perform its international work much better. It would also make recognition by the European Community and Council of Europe much easier to get. - The motion is not a US issue, it is a worldwide one. The support of the Australian government and other allies depend on its success. - If ILGA is to continue to grow and become a truly international organisation the motion should be supported. 3.2 Opposition Five speakers opposed the motion. Tom Reves, founder of NAMBLA, introduced the others. Bill Adriette, editor of the NAMBLA Bulletin, spoke against the motion: - Is recognition by the UN ILGA's crowning acheivement? - If the motion succeeds ILGA will become a top-down, hierarchical unaccountable organisation structured to talk with other institutions and not its own community. - ILGA gains nothing by excluding NAMBLA, UN recognition will still be questioned. - There had been misinformation and lack of information about the issue. - History will be our judge. Cormack, a gay youth activist from Minnesota, spoke against the motion: - He had his first sexual experience at 13 had been with a 29 year old man, for which he was very grateful. There were thousands of gay men in prison in the US for consensual sex with teenage boys. - a vote against NAMBLA was a vote against sexual freedom. M O Dilke an activist from the Netherlands, spoke against the motion: - ILGA has no criteria for expelling members. The groups in question shared ILGA's aims. Warren Potas, an individual from the US, spoke against the motion: - The political right will pick other issues such as SM or drag to exclude ILGA. - What was ILGA's potion on the age of consent? SB read out statements from Project Truth/Free Will and Vereniging Martijn opposing the motion. 3.3 Statements from Member Groups Groups were invited to read written statements. LBL, Denmark, LLH Norway, RFSL Sweden These groups supported the motion. It was not a new issue. Age of consent for sexual activity and paedophilia were two separate things. Consent of a pre-pubertal person was impossible to determine. EGALE - Canada This group supported the motion. There was a difference between child empowerment and child abuse and a difference between age of consent and paedophilia. A child does not have the language or life skills to negotiate boundaries in a relationship with an adult. Would a child be able to negotiate safer sex? SIGLA - Argentina This group supported the motion. Paedophilia was not the same as homosexuality Center ILGA Committee New York - United States This group supported the motion. It was facing the issue not the UN. FAG - Catalonia This group opposed the motion. External pressure from the US was forcing the debate. Glasgow Lesbian Line - Scotland This group supported the motion. It joined ILGA a year ago and was shocked to find paedophile groups were members. 3.4 Statements from individuals Individuals were invited to speak for or against the motion. Not all those who wanted to speak could speak as time was limited and a balance between those supporting and opposing the motion was sought. Niime, OCCUR - Japan Niime supported the motion. It challenged NAMBLA's portrayal of Japan as a place where child/adult sexual relations were custom. This misinterpretation was obstructing progress of gay/lesbian rights in Japan. W. Setz, BVH - Germany W. Setz opposed the motion. ILGA should stand by its principles and not submit to the right's agenda and political blackmail. Theresa, Abigail - South Africa Theresa supported the motion. It challenged NAMBLA's portrayal of Africa as a place where child/adult sexual relations are custom. Our children are our future, not the toys of older men. Jose Maria, Circulo Cultural Gay - Mexico Jose opposed the motion. The motion denied children's sexuality. It used the same tactics as those that oppose gays. Jim Fagelson, Gay and Lesbian Partents - United States Jim supported the motion. Gays are often equated with paedophiles. This is not the case. NAMBLA's membership of ILGA makes the argument difficult. Children obey parents/authority figures, sexual relations with children was a abuse of power, which may cause psychological problems later. Group Y Que - Mexico This group supported the motion. M Abele, HAZ - Switzerland M Abele opposed the motion. There must be good reasons to expel groups. The groups had not contradicted the aims of ILGA. M Pronk, COC - Netherlands M Pronk supported the motion. Our acceptance procedures need tightening up. ILGA does not do enough research into applicant members' backgrounds. Paedophilia is not a synonym for child abuse. J. Oosterhuis, Rozelinks - Netherlands J. Oosterhuis opposed the motion. ILGA needs paedophile organisations, it does not need child abuse organisations. The choice is between expelling groups or losing UN status. We must find a way of neither happening. Ken Dorph, Ipoos Gaya Betawi - Indonesia Ken supported the motion. There was a power imbalance between adults and children. If the motion failed it would compromise ILGA's global fight. Lisa Power, ex Co-Secretary General - England Lisa supported the motion. Lisa had been involved when the issue first arose in 1988 and had worked hard to get people to talk to each other and avoid confrontation. She was wrong, the issue should have been sorted out in 1988. ILGA has changed from being a purely solidarity movement to becoming a human rights organisation. We have a choice of going back into the ghetto or reaching out into the real world. It is not a happy decision. If we don't go forward we go back. Representative of David and Jonathan - France The group narrowly decided to oppose the motion. ILGA's aims are to support lesbian and gay rights and groups around the world. NAMBLA's aims are similar, but they should state that they are against abuse of children. Whatever the result if the seeds of distrust have been sown, Mr Helms will have succeeded. Representative for Latino/Caribbean Lesbians This group supported the motion. NAMBLA opposes feminist/ lesbians in the Caribbean and the defence of human rights. NAMBLA does not set any limits in relations with children. UN status is the result of years of struggle, is something to be proud of and is important to expand gay rights around the world. 3.4 The Vote The plenary moved to a vote on the motion. For 214 Against 30 The motion was carried. 4. Minutes of Workshops 4.1 Paedophilia Groups' membership discusssion The minutes were agreed subject to the replacement of "$10 mill" with $10 million" in part 10 question 3. The following recommendation was passed by a show of hands: "Groups or associations whose predominant aim is to support or promote paedophilia are incompatible with the future development of ILGA" 5. Close of Plenary The plenary registered its thanks to Suzy for chairing. The plenary closed at 13:;05.